Bee Branch Salt Peter Cave

[elbowman]

Hello All,

I have been particularly interested in this posting in Wikipedia under Sipsey Wilderness:

Saltpeter Furnace: Located not far from the Bee Branches, a small cave is hidden by a waterfall, and that cave was once so important that a small skirmish was fought at the nearby Hubbard Mill during the Civil War. The cave is a source of Saltpeter, a major ingredient in the manufacture of Gunpowder.

Can anyone give me some details on the cave?

I know that many people on Alatrails do not like to put locations of historical or geological sites in the Sipsey on a public forum for all the world to see. But general information or a area to search around in will aid those of us who have come to appreciate the uniqueness of the Sipsey Wilderness Area.

1. Without revealing the exact location, would one search in the West or East Branch of Bee Canyon?

2. Has anyone visited the cave and could share their experience and photo's?

If you would prefer to share some information with me privately, please email to my account.

Thanks. Eric

[dayhiker]

I think I saw in the Walking Sipsey book that this was located outside of Bee.  I want to say it's in the canyon west of Bee, but it's probably been 3 years since I read that book.   I need to go back and re-read that thing.  There were a good many interesting nuggets there.

[elbowman]

Thanks for the info Dayhiker. I have been looking for Walking Sipsey, but it's out of print and hard to find.
Do you have a copy of Alabama's Canyons? I have a copy and it is an excellent read with great pictures.
It has given me alot of new places to add to my list to visit.

Eric

[Joshua Szulecki]

It is already public information, from multiple sources,  so I wouldn't fuss about posting the general location on the internet.

I have a copy of "Walking Sipsey" (I'm still waiting on confirmation that I can scan it, because it is not copyrighted and free for educational use) sitting in front of me. It says...

"Well, after walking up the river to the first small branch, one comes to a small canyon. It is known to a few local people as Saltpeter Furnace/ Saltpeter Furnace is not recorded in written history, but it is here...In this canyon, behind the waterfall, there is a cave which at times is still a home for bats. The entrance to the cave is at the bottom of a deep crevice. The trail markers in this case are the small rocks that had to be removed to reach the bat guano which would spill over the hillside by the falls. There are other excavation marks left from the old days...The old furnace is no more than 100 feet from the fall next to the face of the bluff. Saltpeter Furnace deserves a place in American history." - Walking Sipsey, pg 7-8.

The somewhat inaccurate map on pg 14 puts Saltpeter Furnace in a canyon off the Sipsey River between Thompson and Bee Branch (prior to the East/West confluence) Creeks. I've PM'd you with where I believe the exact location to be based on the map.

I've been planning to do a Wikipedia article on both the Saltpeter Furnace and the incident at Hubbard Mill. If you want to collaborate on such a project, please let me know.

[toph]

Here's a few pics of Saltpeter I believe:

There was no waterfall and didn't really see a cave but based on the description from Walking Sipsey above, it may be that you have to crawl down through this crevice at the bottom.  No thanks:

Bee Branch Salt Peter Cave

View from the crevice looking up:

Bee Branch Salt Peter Cave

Board bridge to fire ring on top of a big flat rock under the bluff:

Bee Branch Salt Peter Cave

A lot of the rocks here were pretty dark which could be the remnants of the furnace (sooty):

Bee Branch Salt Peter Cave

This is right in the immediate area as well but didn't appear to be too deep and therefore not likely the cave:

Bee Branch Salt Peter Cave

Bigger view of the Saltpeter bluffline:

Bee Branch Salt Peter Cave

[elbowman]

Toph,
Thanks for the pictures! I was out there Monday, but ran out of time to look around the canyon. I did manage to find the canyon with no problem before the rain started. And it rained hard! If I am looking into the canyon from the 209, which side were your pictures taken on? Right or Left of canyon?

Thanks. Eric

[EddieNDothon]

Was there any evidence there used to be a waterfall around the cave?

[Pully]

The waterfall was flowing last year in April. I haven't been back since.

[EddieNDothon]

so i'll be going to bee branch to see big tree on my trip then going to ripleys cabin would i run into this if i stay closer to the water?
I like civil war and Indian history so the more i find the better

[weathermansam]

Ed, [and someone correct me if I've got things mixed up here], I believe saltpeter cave, or one of them is up in west bee, behind a waterfall on the right side of the creek not long before you find west bee branch falls, and this furnace place is the first drainage north of where bee branch hits the river, where saltpeter falls is?  I do know that there is no trail in west bee, and it's not easy hiking without the foliage up.  If I were to attempt something like this when everything was in leaf, I'd huddle as close as I could to the bluff line. 

[Uncle Wayne]

Weathermansam's directions, although most times he's right on with anything he says, are just a little mixed up .  So don't take this personal Weathermansam but here's the way I would go to the Saltpeter furnace / cave area.

If you're at the Big Tree, head toward Sipsey. Once you reach Sipsey, take the trail to your right toward Thompson Creek. The first canyon / hollow along that trail that has water running across the trail, turn up it. 

The remnants of the old Furnace, just a heap of big rocks, can be seen on the right side of the bluff line and the cave will be within 25 to 30 yards of it also. 

The cave is off limits to enter now but you can look inside by doing some crawling behind the boulders a few feet away from the bluff line.

The waterfall, if flowing it is very seasonal, will be about 50 yards from the old furnace.  Until last spring, I'd never been there when there was any water flowing over the falls.

The cabin trail is much further upstream toward Thompson.  And don't expect a  "cabin" in the normal sense of the word.  It's built of masonary blocks.

[Uncle Wayne]

I have a copy of "Walking Sipsey" (I'm still waiting on confirmation that I can scan it, because it is not copyrighted and free for educational use) sitting in front of me. It says...

"Well, after walking up the river to the first small branch, one comes to a small canyon. It is known to a few local people as Saltpeter Furnace/ Saltpeter Furnace is not recorded in written history, but it is here...In this canyon, behind the waterfall, there is a cave which at times is still a home for bats. The entrance to the cave is at the bottom of a deep crevice. The trail markers in this case are the small rocks that had to be removed to reach the bat guano which would spill over the hillside by the falls. There are other excavation marks left from the old days...The old furnace is no more than 100 feet from the fall next to the face of the bluff. Saltpeter Furnace deserves a place in American history." - Walking Sipsey, pg 7-8.

Joshua, that's an excellent book and I know the author, Jim Manasco personally.  He's a great guy and knows the BNF as well as anyone but there are some things, like the map you mentioned, that are his opinion and not fact.  I've found that to be true of most books written about the BNF, even the Butch Walker books.  Butch is a very close friend of our family.

Like all written history, details varies greatly with the author's perspective, opinion and who he interviewed to get his info.  A book written by me would be no different, it's just the way it is.

You mentioned in a much earlier post on the Alabama Canyons book that the books on Sipsey were not written to be trail guides as such, and that is correct,  but we still all use them that way, myself included.

[weathermansam]

If you're at the Big Tree, head toward Sipsey. Once you reach Sipsey, take the trail to your right toward Thompson Creek. The first canyon / hollow along that trail that has water running across the trail, turn up it. 

The remnants of the old Furnace, just a heap of big rocks, can be seen on the right side of the bluff line and the cave will be within 25 to 30 yards of it also. 

This was essentially what I was trying to say with my half awake brain last night   nothing personal taken.


....I can't my copy the alabama canyons book, but I swear I've seen mention somewhere of another cave or saltpeter cave up west bee, though. 

[toph]

This is in West Bee:

Bee Branch Salt Peter Cave

Not too big but interesting nonetheless.  It's just a bit upstream from where the White Oak route crosses and about halfway up the hill from the creek on the right side.

[weathermansam]

What's the significance of the rock cairn in west bee?  The one time I was in that section of west bee I didn't have time to browse or I would have.



just to the right...
 

[EddieNDothon]

Thanks everyone for all your help. If anyone would like to join us please come along.  we should be arriving at Thompson Bridge around 2pm on thursday may 27. I'm wanting to camp in a different place every night though.

[EddieNDothon]

how close is Hubbard Mill to the cave?

[vapor]

weathermansam,

Perhaps you saw mention of the "caves" in west bee in Hiking Alabama? We hiked that area this past weekend & towards the end is a nice waterfall. When leaving that waterfall you follow the canyon back a bit, staying on the right, & come upon shockingly another waterfall. Behind this waterfall, to the left is a small cave. If you get down on all 4 you can see light coming out the other side which made me think it went to the other side of the canyon. We found the other side of the cave not far around the pile of rubble. I had thought this was salt peter cave until reading this forum afterwards.

[weathermansam]

weathermansam,

Perhaps you saw mention of the "caves" in west bee in Hiking Alabama? We hiked that area this past weekend & towards the end is a nice waterfall. When leaving that waterfall you follow the canyon back a bit, staying on the right, & come upon shockingly another waterfall. Behind this waterfall, to the left is a small cave. If you get down on all 4 you can see light coming out the other side which made me think it went to the other side of the canyon. We found the other side of the cave not far around the pile of rubble. I had thought this was salt peter cave until reading this forum afterwards.

Most of my info I gather from either the Manasco or Walker books.  I browsed a huge set of photos you were in on Facebook, you guys covered a lot of ground this past weekend.  It's good to see west bee falls flowing as well as it is...did you guys hike the northern side of the creek?  There's a nice waterfall there and a neat rock formation that I didn't see in the gallery. 

[vapor]

if you are referring to section above "west bee falls" we did not. I wanted to but we ran out of time.

[weathermansam]

No, not above West Bee Branch Falls, but on the northern/western side of the creek itself.  One drainage up from the white oak shortcut into West Bee is this waterfall and rock feature....

Bee Branch Salt Peter Cave

Bee Branch Salt Peter Cave