Braziel Creek hike this Saturday

[weathermansam]

There's a fair chance I'll be leaving the state in the next couple of months if one of these job opportunities come through, so I'm getting a jump start on my bucket list of things to see in Sipsey.  I plan on hiking up the east side of the creek and back down the western side for a loop of about 10 miles from what I can gather.  I'm not out to see waterfalls, but any every beech tree I come across I'm going to search.  It's arborglyphs and shelters I'm wanting to encounter.  I plan to get to the Borden Trailhead about 8a.m., if any of you want to join me. 

[Uncle Wayne]

There's a fair chance I'll be leaving the state in the next couple of months if one of these job opportunities come through, so I'm getting a jump start on my bucket list of things to see in Sipsey.  I plan on hiking up the east side of the creek and back down the western side for a loop of about 10 miles from what I can gather.  I'm not out to see waterfalls, but any every beech tree I come across I'm going to search.  It's arborglyphs and shelters I'm wanting to encounter.  I plan to get to the Borden Trailhead about 8a.m., if any of you want to join me. 

Good luck on the job opportunities.  Lots to see up and down Braziel Creek.  The famous "rattlesnake" tree is along that route, a "bird" tree, several Indian Marker trees and a few bluff shelters / caves.   With the forecast of rain this weekend to break the drought and 100 degree temps, it should be an enjoyable hike.  Be on the watch for snakes.  They are really crawling now.  I've seen more this past month than the last 3 years combined.  3 and 4 feet long rattlers and 2 and 3 feet long copperheads.

Looking forward to your trip report.

[weathermansam]

Yeah, I'm a little nervous about the snakes.  I'm notorious for not watching where I put my feet, and bound through places a little carelessly sometimes.  I've never been bit, but I'm considering buying snake guards.

I've been reading through some of the books I have to try and figure out general locations, thought I didn't see anything about a bird tree...saw mention of a copperhead motif.  Can you give me some tips?  either here or via message?  I did think I saw mention of a mortar stone somewhere close to a road, I'm assuming near the Gum Pond Trailhead.  Also mentions a rattlesnake tree atop a knoll about 100 yards from the shelters.    

[Uncle Wayne]

Yeah, I'm a little nervous about the snakes.  I'm notorious for not watching where I put my feet, and bound through places a little carelessly sometimes.  I've never been bit, but I'm considering buying snake guards.

I've been reading through some of the books I have to try and figure out general locations, thought I didn't see anything about a bird tree...saw mention of a copperhead motif.  Can you give me some tips?  either here or via message?  I did think I saw mention of a mortar stone somewhere close to a road, I'm assuming near the Gum Pond Trailhead.  Also mentions a rattlesnake tree atop a knoll about 100 yards from the shelters.   

Snake chaps wouldn't be a bad idea through that area right now.  Especially around the creek, the snakes are looking for wet places.  The last time I did the route along Braziel Creek there was some wooly areas to go through. You'll probably need to cross the creek now and then just to make it a little easier hike.

Anytime you see a marker tree, line up with it and look in the direction it points.  They were marked in the direction they point for a reason.  The bird tree will be one of the first arborglyphs you'll pass, as I remember after the first turn in Braziel on the left side of the trail.  There are several mortar stones in that area,

[weathermansam]

The bird tree will be one of the first arborglyphs you'll pass, as I remember after the first turn in Braziel on the left side of the trail.  There are several mortar stones in that area,

Is this heading south or north on braziel?  I've noticed on the cart o craft map there's an established trail on the right side of the creek heading north, but I've walked the left side with a pretty clear path almost all the way to clifty creek, to a waterfall Jaybird likes. 

[Uncle Wayne]

Is this heading south or north on braziel?  I've noticed on the cart o craft map there's an established trail on the right side of the creek heading north, but I've walked the left side with a pretty clear path almost all the way to clifty creek, to a waterfall Jaybird likes. 

When you said you were starting at the Borden Creek Trailhead, I assumed (yeah, I know what assuming does) you meant the one at the Bunyan Hill curved bridge. If so, the bird tree is on the left side of Braziel going north, on the path most take to Clifty.  Braziel will take a sharp turn to the west a little over half way to Clifty.  The Bird Tree is in that curve as I remember it.  The first Indian marker tree will be just a little ways across Clifty Creek, again going north.  Theres a huge spread of Virginia bluebells in the same area.  Beautiful in the spring time.

Do you know the history of the marker trees along the Braziel creek route?  That is a famous path used by Indians and later by run-away slaves.  Some of the path you'll be walking is part of the old "freedom trail".  It provided a safe passage through the forest away from the major thoroughfares of the white man: what we call HWY 33 on the east side and the Byler road on the west.

[wirerat123]

It provided a safe passage through the forest away from the major thoroughfares of the white man

You white folks be getting on my nerves.   

Thanks for some of that history man, some interesting knowledge out there that just doesn't get shared enough.

[weathermansam]

Read a bit about it in the Indian Trails of the Warrior Mtns book.  I'd recommend that one and the Warrior Folklore book to anyone, tons of information in there. 

[weathermansam]

Well that was a disaster.  I should have known better than to try this hike this time of year.  Went at it from Borden TH, lost the trail somewhere in the neighborhood of Clifty Creek, not sure if I ever even made it to Clifty, hopped to the other side, which wasn't any better, backtracked to Borden.  Drove to the Gum Pond TH, made the mistake of taking 207 back down instead of following the horse trail until it hit Braziel and then dropping down.  The only thing I saw today were a lot of cobwebs [I'm covered] and a lot of frogs.  Surprisingly, no snakes.  In fact, outside of some random bird about an hour into the hike, I never heard another noise.  I was the only car at Borden and Gum Pond.  Wish I'd gone with my gut and just done something else today.  When the leaves are down I'll make another go at this, probably just exploring the upper portion of Braziel.  I really didn't see much in the way of bluffs at all, but I was also busy pulling webs out of my face. 

I did find an H tree and there was some other scrawlings, but I managed to leave the chalk in the car, again.  After a good long shower I'll see if the photos are worth sharing. 

Not a bad trip.  Anytime I set foot in new territory in Sipsey is good, but definitely not how I expected the day to turn out. 

[Joshua Szulecki]

I know where you got lost, I think. Did you run into deadfall?

We struggled with whether we had run into Clifty when we went in 2008 during April. The trace heads up Cliftybefore you ever see the creek, and you never see the confluence. Had to use the gps to confirm, but we finally found the confluence, which holds a huge wildflower bed.

[weathermansam]

I followed the "trail" on the left side of the creek past the turn off to ray of light falls at this 'marker'

Braziel Creek hike this Saturday

which faded, but I picked up an old road bed that had a weird short split to it and featured two more of those things.  I realized it was pulling away from the water, so I made my way down to the water, which seemed really small to still be braziel.  I crossed and went down the other side for a ways until I saw familiar scenery.  I tried hiking uphill to the "official" braziel creek trail, but I was tired by this point.  I did come across a "game" trail that led past two almost identical piles of rocks that I'll post photos of.  one of either side of the 'trail'.  On my attempt from the north, I noticed the trail was following haygood creek, so I figured I'd nip this one in the bud and hike downhill until I found water, but the underbrush was pretty bad.  I did run across a sinkhole out there, though.  I'm surprised I'm not just covered in spider bites.  I had to have plowed through at least 50 webs, or it sure seemed like it. 

[Joshua Szulecki]

That was the way we went. I think those markers were reflectors to mark the stream beds on an old logging road, although we found some signs of past habitation along that road, namely some rose bushes that did not belong.

Since our experience was similar, I think you got lost where we got confused. The old roadbed turns a bit before the confluence, and stays away from Clifty for a ways, so it is disorienting.

You should see the spider webs at Cedars of Lebanon SP in TN! I saw hundreds of giant green spiders around this time last year, and each build his web across the trail.

[Pully]

Sorry you didn't have the hike you were expecting. Spiderwebs and gnats are a major reason I don't like summer hiking. I was considering joining you but after a couple of hikes this summer, a few trips with my geography class and after being in Northern Mississippi for a couple days and remembering the last time my dad and I went down Braziel, I decided I'm tired of summer and saving all major hiking until cooler weather. It's so hard to see the bluffs while walking up Braziel in the summer. We're going to hike it again in the Winter and start at the head of Braziel and work our way down. Some of the markers are along the horse trail further up Braziel near the bridge. I guess you turned around before the Braziel Creek Bridge and Braziel Cave? On FT 207 there are two sundisk arborglyphs.

I'd like to see your pictures when you post them.

[weathermansam]

I may like to tag along on that if I can.  It'd be nice to go with someone who's been there before.  I saved a few waypoints on the gps, and plugged them in google maps to see where I was, then drew in some lines in Microsoft Paint.  It seems I had gone up Clifty a ways, crossed the creek, wandered back down a little, crossed again and still missed the intersection.  Coming from the north I'd almost made it to the haygood/braziel intersection before I stopped.  Yeesh.  I wish my GPS had mapping capabilities now.  

[weathermansam]

Braziel Creek hike this Saturday

I apparently took a point almost right at the junction.  I think I may a photo of it then.  There was one spot where I was debating if it were a bend in the creek or two creeks joining.  I'm betting the latter now.

[Joshua Szulecki]

Yup, looks like the same spot. Since our target was the confluence, we were able to backtrack quickly. It smelled horrible at the confluence when we were there, fetid rotting matter stink without explanation.

That trip is one of several that convinced me to leave the gps on during the whole trip. A bushwhack in leaves makes navigation a real pita.

[weathermansam]

Yeah, if I'd been smart about it, I could have used google to figure out some waypoints beforehand.  Oh well, I'll plan the next hike much more carefully. 

[weathermansam]

Braziel Creek hike this Saturday

Braziel Creek hike this Saturday

Braziel Creek hike this Saturday

Braziel Creek hike this Saturday

Some more from the trek today. 
http://www.weathermansam....p/081410sipsey/index.html

[Bankheadboy]

Never forget your chalk   forget your food Not the chalk There's no telling what that tree has on it other than the H. There's tree's on upper Thompson or old timers say Mattox Creek that you can chalk for 30 mins. I dont leave home without it anymore. It brings the carvings to life! Thanks for the trip report its getting me ready to hit the woods!

[Joshua Szulecki]

Never forget your chalk  forget your food Not the chalk There's no telling what that tree has on it other than the H. There's tree's on upper Thompson or old timers say Mattox Creek that you can chalk for 30 mins. I dont leave home without it anymore. It brings the carvings to life! Thanks for the trip report its getting me ready to hit the woods!

I hate to be a contrarian, but aren't there less potentially destructive (to the carving) ways to make them stand out? I've heard several complaints about regular chalkings ruining stone carvings at Kinlock Shelter, gravesites, etc... Considering trees are softer than rock... Not to mention that chalk can stain surfaces.

A side lit photograph, using a bright flash unit at a shallow angle or parallel to the surface of the carving should make it stand out fairly well.

[Uncle Wayne]

I hate to be a contrarian, but aren't there less potentially destructive (to the carving) ways to make them stand out? I've heard several complains about regular chalkings ruining stone carvings at Kinlock Shelter, gravesides, etc... Considering trees are softer than rock... Not to mention that chalk can stain surfaces.

A side lit photograph, using a bright flash unit at a shallow angle or parallel to the surface of the carving should make it stand out fairly well.

The chalk I use is the type kids use on sidewalks etc.  It washes off very easily and leaves no stain.  It's the number of people that visit Kinlock Shelter that cause the damage, not the chalk.

[Joshua Szulecki]

Actually, according to what I've heard from the tombstone tracing folks, sidewalk chalk is harder and more likely to stain than blackboard chalk, since it is made for use on a rough surface. Here is what Crayola wrote in response to an inquiry by somebody who traces tombstones...

"Crayola sidewalk chalk contains plaster of paris which has a gritty texture. Plaster of paris is not considered to be biodegradable, nor are most of the pigments contained in Crayola sidewalk chalk. Also, product packaging warns of colorants that may stain. This could be a good factor depending on the exact nature of what you are trying to do. While packaging does warn of colorants that may stain, chalk used outside generally washes away because of extreme weather conditions and excessive rain. Again, this could vary depending on the surface it is applied to."

I know licensed tour guides do it at Gettysburg, so it can't be that bad, although they are usually working with flat surfaces that get rained on. I imagine vertical surfaces wash off more slowly.


I'm not saying it is more destructive than over visitation, or that you shouldn't do it if it isn't specifically banned, but I do think alternatives merit consideration. Considering the historic nature of most carvings, you should at least be aware of what can happen if you do chalk.

[Joshua Szulecki]

But as with most things, I'm a use your own judgment type, so if you aren't worried about it, go ahead and do it if it is allowed. I doubt it will cause any serious damage if one person chalks something once every few months at the most often. I just figured I'd point out that there are other ways.

[weathermansam]

I'd forgotten and left the chalk in the car again as I usually do.  I'll see if I can find an art store around here that sells something that would be less harmful to the trees. 

[Bankheadboy]

Oh my goodness!  :'( Some folks just need something to complain about! Ban this Ban that! Call the Ranger and Ban chalk! No more chalk in Bankhead! Sorry Sam! use the chalk you got!

[Uncle Wayne]

Actually, according to what I've heard from the tombstone tracing folks, sidewalk chalk is harder and more likely to stain than blackboard chalk, since it is made for use on a rough surface. Here is what Crayola wrote in response to an inquiry by somebody who traces tombstones...

"Crayola sidewalk chalk contains plaster of paris which has a gritty texture. Plaster of paris is not considered to be biodegradable, nor are most of the pigments contained in Crayola sidewalk chalk. Also, product packaging warns of colorants that may stain. This could be a good factor depending on the exact nature of what you are trying to do. While packaging does warn of colorants that may stain, chalk used outside generally washes away because of extreme weather conditions and excessive rain. Again, this could vary depending on the surface it is applied to."

That is very interesting.  The multicolored sidewalk chalk, not Crayola, I bought at Wal-Mart in Moulton says "environmentally friendly"  on the packaging.  That was one reason i bought it. I took it to mean the chalk. Since you brought this up, it may have been talking about the packaging itself.  I'll check and see if it list the ingredients or make up of the chalk.

But it washes off very easily.  In fact, even a light sprinkle will dissolve it from any surface our 2 year old granddaughter has been pleased to draw on.

[Joshua Szulecki]

I'd forgotten and left the chalk in the car again as I usually do.  I'll see if I can find an art store around here that sells something that would be less harmful to the trees. 

The trees should be fine with chalk. Even sidewalk chalk is just gypsum based. Environmentally, chalk is nothing. My concern is whether chalking might degrade the carving over time, since it abrasive, or cause a stain that alters the carving.

That said, I would expect it would take a serious number of chalkings before the carving would degrade. I was just suggesting chalk might not be the best option available. I know archeaologists have used side lighting and stereoscopic photographs to image carvings. A flash unit can be purchased for almost nothing these days used, put on a cable, and attached to any camera with a hotshoe, including decades old film gear. Stereoscopic cameras are more expensive, but still pretty common on the used market. Rather than wear, I think the archeologists are usually concerned with the chalk screwing up their radiocarbon dating.

When I get the chance, I do some side lit photos of rock or tree carvings and see how difficult they are to pull off. I suspect it will be more difficult than chalk.

Again, I serious doubt rare chalkings will damage anything seriously, but I would recommend soft chalk that washes off even vertical surfaces quickly. I personally wouldn't chalk because I follow museum rules (look, don't touch) when I deal with historical artifacts. Made a trip to the National Archives a few years back very uncomfortable when I was handed a box of documents with pressed flowers between many of the pages! But... I would never push to have chalking banned, and as far as I know, it is allowed.

 

[weathermansam]

An alternative I may try is charcoal and paper next time I'm out there, which won't be soon.  Considering the Walls of Jericho, Savage Gulf or Little River with all this rain if my parents don't come up this weekend.