birdman tree

[mongonmeredyth]

hey everybody my wife meredyth and i are new to alatrails but we spend quite a bit of time in the bankhead and sipsey wilderness. we just want to inform everyone of some sad news the birdman tree is broken off approx 6-8 ft above the glyph. my wife came up with the idea of seeing what we could do about preserving the glyph and possibly having it put in the oakville museum. we have contacted wildsouth and spoke with janice and mark and they agree that we should try to preserve it. we have also contacted ms. allan the archeologist with the forest service and she seems very receptive to the idea but says we will need support and volonteers to do leg work such as photos of the tree's condition at this time and gps coordinates and mapping to the tree. we have some photos of the tree but we don't have a gps. mark at wildsouth says it would be good if people interested would call ms. allan the phone # is (205)489-5111. we would like to hear any other ideas you guys might have. ms. allan told me we could probably set up a special meeting with the ranger in jan. we would appreciate any input ya'll have.

[Uncle Wayne]

hey everybody my wife meredyth and i are new to alatrails but we spend quite a bit of time in the bankhead and sipsey wilderness. we just want to inform everyone of some sad news the birdman tree is broken off approx 6-8 ft above the glyph. my wife came up with the idea of seeing what we could do about preserving the glyph and possibly having it put in the oakville museum. we have contacted wildsouth and spoke with janice and mark and they agree that we should try to preserve it. we have also contacted ms. allan the archeologist with the forest service and she seems very receptive to the idea but says we will need support and volonteers to do leg work such as photos of the tree's condition at this time and gps coordinates and mapping to the tree. we have some photos of the tree but we don't have a gps. mark at wildsouth says it would be good if people interested would call ms. allan the phone # is (205)489-5111. we would like to hear any other ideas you guys might have. ms. allan told me we could probably set up a special meeting with the ranger in jan. we would appreciate any input ya'll have.

Bummer!  I have the GPS coordinates.

[weathermansam]

I'll be in that neck of the woods the weekend after this one....I'll get photos of it.  I'll talk with Janice about it this weekend too.  I'd like to see it saved. 

[weathermansam]

Mongo, could you post photos of it?  I'm interested in seeing what it looks like now. 

[mongonmeredyth]

Sorry been away from the computer for a few days. Sam I'll be at work till Sunday I'll see if I can post those photos for you.

[Scottnbama]

I'm sorry to here the condition of the tree...it's a valuable piece of our history. I was really hoping to see it before it completely deteriates.

My son and I have gone to its general location several times in hopes of finding it but  unfortunately haven't been able to. I'm sure we have been very close though because we did find several significant land marks that I've heard are in close proximity to the birdman tree, such as the canyon with the waterfall and the half moon tree. We also have found the shelter and nutting stone that I have seen pics of in a members photo gallery.

I know I am new here and shouldn't jump on here asking for GPS coordinates of such a place but I would greatly appreciate any "tips" I could get on pin-pointing the birdman's exact location.

[weathermansam]

I'm leading a hike this weekend through that area and down on through Indian Tomb Hollow, so hopefully I'll get to see it firsthand. 

[weathermansam]

Photos of the Birdman Tree.  In the third photo note the crack in the bark/trunk on the right.  A tree has fallen across the top of it making the situation a bit worse now.  

[weathermansam]

Video of the tree:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/TGg9OvZBgOU&rel=0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/TGg9OvZBgOU&rel=0</a>

[mongonmeredyth]

Nice pics Sam. I think we're going to have to act fast to save the glyph. A good wind storm could rock that other tree and cause that crack to spread and ruin the carving.

[Uncle Wayne]

I appreciate the effort of mongomeredyth and the photos Weathermansam provided.  Mongomeredyth, Ms. Jean Allan is a personal friend of my family.  We have worked with her in bluff shelter surveys in years gone by and she is on our side in this but is also one who follows the letter of the law in situations concerning heritage property.  Here's what is going on:

Since the birdman tree is a "government property" it can't simply be given away to anyone even the Oakville Museum.  It is classified as an "heritage property" and as such, with the proper paperwork, could be "loaned" to a museum for a set amount of time, usually ten years.  After ten years, the loan would have to be revisited and renewed.

She has a meeting with the State Archaeologist tomorrow (I think) and has placed the tree on the agenda to get something done.  She said since the arbor-glyph / tree is in obvious danger of being lost, she expects a quick turn around but probably not until after the first of the year. 

I told her I could gather enough volunteers to do the actual removal if she would just give me the OK.  She said she would do so as soon as she could legally do it.

I contacted a lawyer who has worked on Federal cases against and for the NFS and explained the situation to him. I asked him "what if the section of the tree with the birdman carving just showed up at the Oakville Museum without anyone knowing how it got there? 

He said it would be a violation of Federal law, stealing Federal property (Heritage property at that) and the Oakville museum would not be able to display it legally.  If the museum did display it, they would be in danger of losing their accreditation as an Heritage museum and forfeit any government grants it now receives.

He advised me to let the government work through the proper channels and once they gave us the go ahead, then do whatever it required to move it to safety.  He also said the more you push some of these NFS people the more they drag their feet.

So some good news and some bad news.

Final analysis: it falls in the category of one of the three biggest lies: I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

[weathermansam]

I appreciate the effort of mongomeredyth and the photos Weathermansam provided.  Mongomeredyth, Ms. Jean Allan is a personal friend of my family.  We have worked with her in bluff shelter surveys in years gone by and she is on our side in this but is also one who follows the letter of the law in situations concerning heritage property.  Here's what is going on:

Since the birdman tree is a "government property" it can't simply be given away to anyone even the Oakville Museum.  It is classified as an "heritage property" and as such, with the proper paperwork, could be "loaned" to a museum for a set amount of time, usually ten years.  After ten years, the loan would have to be revisited and renewed.

She has a meeting with the State Archaeologist tomorrow (I think) and has placed the tree on the agenda to get something done.  She said since the arbor-glyph / tree is in obvious danger of being lost, she expects a quick turn around but probably not until after the first of the year.  

I told her I could gather enough volunteers to do the actual removal if she would just give me the OK.  She said she would do so as soon as she could legally do it.

I contacted a lawyer who has worked on Federal cases against and for the NFS and explained the situation to him. I asked him "what if the section of the tree with the birdman carving just showed up at the Oakville Museum without anyone knowing how it got there?  

He said it would be a violation of Federal law, stealing Federal property (Heritage property at that) and the Oakville museum would not be able to display it legally.  If the museum did display it, they would be in danger of losing their accreditation as an Heritage museum and forfeit any government grants it now receives.

He advised me to let the government work through the proper channels and once they gave us the go ahead, then do whatever it required to move it to safety.  He also said the more you push some of these NFS people the more they drag their feet.

So some good news and some bad news.

Final analysis: it falls in the category of one of the three biggest lies: I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

I forwarded the photos/video/coordinates on to Ms. Allan and to Mark Kolinski of Wild South.  Mark emailed me back and said he'd be in touch whenever they got permission to go in and get the glyph out.  

[weathermansam]

I spoke with Janice earlier today and she said that the photos of the tree laying across the top and the obvious splits in the trunk helped seal the deal.  The forest service will be cutting and removing the tree sometime next week!  She was amazed at the quick turnaround of this all and I am too.  I'm glad I managed to play some part in helping get it preserved, however small. 

[weathermansam]

There will be a work party tomorrow to get the glyph! 

The removal has been postponed.  They need a more experienced cutter because of the situation with the other tree leaning.  They're going to try and save the other carvings on the tree as well, too now. 

**WE'VE BEEN URGED TO SPREAD THE WORD FOR PEOPLE TO NOT GO IN AND TAMPER WITH THE TREE**  Keep an eye on the condition, but if we want this properly done and the ability to have it displayed in the museum, they have to do the removal. 

[weathermansam]

Snippets from emails with Janice to explain the situation:

"Mark K and I will continue to coordinate with the Forest Service so that the operation can take place as soon as a Class C sawyer is available.  It is a very precarious and tricky situation with the leaning tree on top of the glyph tree.  In the meantime, our concern is that someone will decide to go in there and do the "rescue" themselves....Si nce this is National Forest, the Forest Service must be in charge of the actual cutting.  Anything else is illegal.  We are working closely with the FS on this and to get the glyph to the museum intact.  If anybody has any questions about it they can contact me.  "

Janice Barrett
256-974-6166
janice@wildsouth.org

[Joshua Szulecki]

Kinda annoying they didn't give any indication on how long it will take to get a class C sawyer to the site.

[bramblypines]

I was in the Oakville museum yesterday and they are working on preserving part of
the tree with the birdman they have. They are worried about how fast it dried out and
will probably have to seal it with something so I wonder what it will look like when it is done.
They were not sure when it would be on display.

[weathermansam]

Well, they had us leave it outside exposed to the elements in a freakin' canoe.  I'm not sure what they expected. 

[mongonmeredyth]

The carving has been put up inside and they are in the process of treating it with a wood stabilizer which is supposed to prevent it from cracking. When that dries it will be sealed. The carving is still in good shape.

[dayhiker]

Are there any updates?