Flagging off trail, opinions.......

[MobileBackpacker]

I'm sure this has been hashed out already but im curious as to what you all think.

I have noticed several places in the Sipsey that are flagged, usually areas that are off trail and away from the beaten path. Generally they flag the way out or a way around or sometimes im not sure what they flag. Sometimes they are overkill like hiking out of Eagle ck up to the highway. I hiked that this past weekend and was assured i picked the right drainage to exit when i saw the flagging but then there was a flag every 15-20 ft the entire way out of the woods. It was a bit of a dissapointment to end the trip that way. I personally find it annoying and think it detracts from the wilderness aspect that i enjoy so much about the Sipsey. I also found myself putting my map back in my pack and going into auto mode once the flag trail was established. Dont get me wrong i can see how it can be useful for when you get your bearings mixed up........... but does it mean that it should be there?

We have designated trails in the Sipsey, should we be flagging new pathways through the forest? Part of the enjoyment i get from getting off trail is to visit the lesser impacted areas of the forest.

At the very least, just take it easy on the flagging intervals.

[DavidR]

I have never placed a marker of any sort while hiking but I agree with you on excessive flagging. Most of the flags I've encountered have a purpose, but some I could never figure out. There are times in some areas of thick bush that I have wished to see some sign of a trail, flag, or other sign that someone had been there before and perhapse found an easier way out.

[squidbilly]

I hate that stuff. If I want to see trash I'll stay on the roadside or in town. If you can't navigate without it, you should stay home.

[Joshua Szulecki]

We've been over this in the past, and I'll repeat that I hate the stuff. I take them down. And yes, the Eagle Creek drainage is starting to look like a subdivision in planning.

[weathermansam]

My first trek to Sougahoagdee Falls I did solo, took the Brushy Creek way in until I came across these things, and not knowing any better followed them uphill thinking it led to the top of  the falls, and instead after climbing a few spits of dead fall, they grew sparse and then ended.  I got myself completely turned around and it being cloudy, lost a sense of direction and spent the better part of an hour and a half wandering around, maneuvering over more deadfall until I found my way back the way I came.  I didn't have a lot of daylight to play with after the fact, and my stupid self didn't pack a flashlight.  I was not pleased to say the least.  Were I not legally deaf [you'd probably never know the difference unless I mentioned it], the sound of water from the falls or the creek probably would have helped or lured me.  I'm glad I at least got to see the waterfall before getting "lost".    

Since that incident, I rely solely on my topo map and land navigation skills and offer these wandering "trails" a glance as they lead to possibly nowhere.  

[Uncle Wayne]

I hate that stuff. If I want to see trash I'll stay on the roadside or in town. If you can't navigate without it, you should stay home.

Exactly and inside the wilderness, they are illegal.  When I was the scoutmaster of the Moulton troop, I asked permission to put in a couple of cross country orienteering courses that would cover approximately 2 miles.  I was told I could be fined $500 for each marker I left in the Wilderness.
The guy who did the Eagle Creek flagging would need to be a millionaire if he got caught.

[MobileBackpacker]

Well im glad this is the consensus so far. I know i have heard that hunters use this quite often but the places i have seen it has been to mark a feature or route to a feature which lends it to a hiker.

and Sam.... thats another reason i dont like them. Like i said earlier, i put myself in auto mode and put my map away. Although if i get lost i wouldnt be able to blame it on anybody but myself but it still could be misleading if you didnt know any better.

That is interesting about the $500 fine for flagging...

[SmokeDiver]

I've always thought that if you need flags or blazes to orient yourself you might as well break down and invest in a wilderness GPS and use the track feature. Flags have their uses in emergency situations and that's about it. The only other time I use trail blazes is to mark a proposed trail for cutting on private property. Otherwise they are an eye sore and they detract from the enjoyment of the area for all other visitors. If you want to go off trail it's best to learn proper orienteering or use a GPS.

[montysano]

I hate 'em.  They have no place in a wilderness area. 

We did Eagle Creek last week and carried out a handful of flags.  It's ridiculous, since it would be damned hard to get lost at Eagle Creek. 

I resisted getting a GPS for years.  But although my orienteering skills are pretty good, I have an almost pathological fear of getting lost.  So I got a GPS, and I love the thing, but I still navigate mostly by map and compass.

[SmokeDiver]

I hear ya. I felt like I was cheapening the wilderness experience when I bought a nice GPS; getting lost one time made me change my mind.    I had to find my way back out to the trail by walking back and forth on a grid using 90 degree bearing changes. Talk about tedious and a complete lack of keeping your wits about you. Now I use the GPS in new areas until I am confident enough to leave it at home and just use the old compass and map.

[montysano]

I hear ya. I felt like I was cheapening the wilderness experience when I bought a nice GPS; getting lost one time made me change my mind.   

On one of my very first trips to the Sipsey back in the early '80s, we were out dayhiking.  I decided to separate from my friends and head back to camp.  For two hours, with a 20 degree night coming on, I thought I was lost.  In reality, I was never more than a couple hundred yards off course.  But it really rattled me, and since then, even if I knew 100% where I was, I  would still get nervous.  Which was no fun.  So from now on, the GPS goes with me as a security blanket.

[squidbilly]

We did Eagle Creek last week and carried out a handful of flags.  It's ridiculous, since it would be damned hard to get lost at Eagle Creek. 

 Two weekends ago my son and I cleaned up all we could carry out of the drainage. We didn't go over hill, so there was still a lot of flagging left on that path. Thanks for the effort, it sounds like we have almost cleaned Eagle Creek.

[vapor]

I agree in that I also don't care to see flags off trail & if there is indeed a fine for doing so perhaps someone should post it one of the boards at the trailheads. Without such notification some people are just clueless that they are doing something wrong. They may never read the sign but perhaps one of their friends will & they will get the message. I can't imagine too many people using flags if they found out the fine associated with it.