where can i place a water cache between bull gap TH and horn mouintain?

[stevebo]

  I am planning a hike in a few weeks, and would like to hike the section between bull gap and wormies pulpit/horn mountain.  I know this is a really dry section of trail, so I would like to place a water cache somewhere in between the two.  I have a low clearance car (toyota yaris), so rough rocky roads are not a good idea.  Any suggestions?  How is the road to the CCC shelter?  Is there any water at all between bull gap and horn mountain?  Thanks!

[Mountain Dog]

It has been a couple of years since I drove the road from Bull to Porter.  The road from Bull is pretty good for 2 to 3 miles and then it gets really bad.  I ruined a truck's paint when I reached really bad ruts and very narrow room between growth on each side of the road.  I could not turn back and I had to push into the brush a lot to avoid really deep ruts.  The road from Porters to the top of Horn was passable in the truck but it had deterrorated a lot since my first time on top.  I saw motorcycle clubs using the road and the ruts were getting bad,  I would not try a low clearance vehicle unless I scouted it first.  The road on the north side of Horn was wide enough that you could turn around if you hit ruts too deep to pass.  If the rain has been reasonable, not too dry, there will be water east of the microwave tower.  ((All my directions are based on the trail being due north/south.  So, if I give directions, it will be from the trail with the actual compass north/south ignored.)) There is a large relatively flat section of land taking off north east from the trail about 1/3 the way around the micro wave tower when headed south.  It has a lot of growth but it is basically level to slightly down from the trail.  South of that spit of land the mountain slopes south.  Where that sloap stops and starts climbing for the next hill to the south is a wet water creek.  I've found water in some really dry weather.  The drier the further down you must follow the dry bed to find water.  I would not recommend you plan to find the water unless you have been to it before.

[stargazer]

Stevebo, We drove this road just last weekend to make a water drop for a fellow hiker.  It is a very rough road.  Lots of big rocks and ruts.  I would not take a car on this road.  We can make a water drop for you if you will let us know where you want it.  We dropped water at mile 6 where the big power lines are before.  This is mile 6 from Bull Gap TH. Let us know when your trip is planned and if you would like for us to do the water drop for you. 

[stevebo]

stargazer, thanks for the offer!   How does this work---how much do you charge?   Im still working on the date of my hike--ill get back to you when the date is set!  Also, is my car "safe"  at bull gap trail head?  (Ive never been there--will I have trouble reaching the trail head in my low clearance car?)   

[stargazer]

No charge for the water drop.  We don't mind helping fellow hikers whenever we can.  We have parked at Bull's Gap many times and have not had any problems.  The trail head is right off of Hwy 148 and no problems getting to it. We also left our truck at Porter's Gap when we did an overnighter on Horn Mt. last fall and had no problems.  I do have a question for you.  Are you planning on starting at Bull's Gap and ending at Porter's Gap the next day?  If so, do you have a shuttle back to your car?  When we hiked it, we parked at Porter's Gap and our daughter drove us back to Bull's Gap TH to start our overnighter.   We will need to discuss how much water you think you'll need and we'll talk with you about where we'll put it.  Let me know. 

[squidbilly]

Stargazer, that is so nice of you. Good to know there are people around willing to help out fellow hikers.

[stevebo]

Stargazer, I just sent you a personal message----------------and totally agree with squidbilly---its really great to know there are still good people in the world---makes me want to go out and help some one !   

[stevebo]

one more quick question, since bull gap is in a WMA?-----do I have to worry about hunters?  (I would imagine its turkey season)   

[Mountain Dog]

I personally do not worry about turkey hunters.  In fact, I's rather hike during the season if I am leaving my car unattended on a gravel road.  Turkey hunters must see more of the turkey and are less likely to shoot blindly into the woods than a deer hunter.  You'll see their cars parked along the dirt roads.  They are not far away and they have a gun.  Who knows where the occupant is if you vandalize a car.  My belief is that the trash that steal from unoccupied cars might take a break during the season when the owner might be sitting in the woods close by with a gun.  I know of at least one instance where the trash learned the hard way to leave hunters' cars alone.

[squidbilly]

I personally do not worry about turkey hunters.  In fact, I's rather hike during the season if I am leaving my car unattended on a gravel road.  Turkey hunters must see more of the turkey and are less likely to shoot blindly into the woods than a deer hunter.  You'll see their cars parked along the dirt roads.  They are not far away and they have a gun.  Who knows where the occupant is if you vandalize a car.  My belief is that the trash that steal from unoccupied cars might take a break during the season when the owner might be sitting in the woods close by with a gun.  I know of at least one instance where the trash learned the hard way to leave hunters' cars alone.
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I agree.  You won't have any problems with the hunters. Just don't forget to stop by the Forest Service Office in Talladega and get a permit. It's required for camping during hunting seasons. No charge- just a formality. I think you can fax it in too.
Scroll down to Talladega Ranger District contact info.

[Mountain Dog]

I've never gottten a permit and do not plan on starting.  When I go and where I go hiking is subject to short term issues like weather and coordianting with other friends.  I also drive 5 hours to get into the vacinity and more than likely will cross a couple of districts.  Adding a few hours to ride around visiting ranger district offices and then working out the logistics of a hike are just not in me. 

I called the Taladega district and THEY require a camping permit only during deer season.  I also called the Shoals district.  THEY require a camping permit from Nov. 15-April 30 only.  The clerks said most people do not know about the permiting.  They were not aware of any fines but said they have had some people come in to get permits because the rangers had told them to get one.  Dayhiking does not require a permit anytime.  You can get permits through the mail.  I've never seen a ranger other than close to Cheaha.  Also, all of the Pinhoti is not part of the Talladega National Forest so permitting regulations regarding the sections of the National Forest do not pertain to non federal lands. 

[Mountain Dog]

FYI, Here are the official regulations:

Pursuant to 36 CFR 261.50 (a) and (b), for the protection of public health and safety, the
following acts are prohibited when using the National Forests in Alabama from November 15
through January 31 annually except on the Shoal Creek Division which is until April 30. This
closure order is effective from June 15, 2007 through June 15, 2012.

The following act is PROHIBITED as set forth in 36 CFR 261.58:
Camping in an undesignated campsite during the specified period. 36 CFR 261.58(e)
(See Exhibit A for copy of designated campsites or visit your local district for a copy. ""MD NOTE:the exhibit listed specific campgrounds, not hiking trail areas."")
Pursuant to 36 CFR 261.50(e) the following persons are exempt form this order.
Persons with a permit specifically authorizing the otherwise prohibited act or
omission.

I guess this means that all the campers on Chinnabee, McDill, Skyway ect. are subject to being removed for cause because most, if not all, camp out of ignorance.  I'll continue to be labeled with the ignorant crowd.

What I cannot find is a map showing the boundries of the National Forest lands in Alabama or the division between the Talladega and Shoal Creek divisions. 

[stevebo]

Mountain dog, I too called the talladega ranger station and they said the same thing,  only permits during gun deer season.  To be honest with you, in all the years Ive gone hiking on the Pinhoti, Ive never seen a ranger, and on lots of trips have never seen other people!   Im guessing the whole permit thing is something technically on the books, but is never or seldom enforced---or cannot be realistically enforced!----but its good to know---thanks for the info ! 

[squidbilly]

I don't get a permit unless I'm going through a wildlife management area. Seems to me that's the only place it would matter. I didn't realize Steve wouldn't need one during turkey season in the Hollins WMA.  Like Steve said, it's probably unenforceable anyway. However if something happens, I'm permitted.