Spring Crossings/ Water posibilities

[wyleone]

I am taking my scout troop Backpacking on the trail in two weeks. Most of our logistics are worked out except water between Adams gap and Cheaha mtn.

I have a water filter and see that there is a spring crossing on the map at 39.0. I have spoken to several people that have hiked the area several times (not this year) and have not been able to find this spring.
I would rather not carry 2+ days of water if I don't have to.

Does anyone know of confirmed water sources between Heaven and the 43.1 campsite?

[Woody]

This is not a confirmed report of the water levels for the section you mentioned but it is just my experience. Thought I would post it anyway as you may not get a solid confirmation from anyone if no one has hiked it recently.

I have hiked that section quite a few times (not this year though and usually in the winter) and have found water in a number of spots. The information I have shows a seasonal spring crossing 1.2 miles from Adams Gap and 3.2 miles from Adams Gap before reaching Heaven. These are usually very small and you may have to go slightly down hill from the trail to find a small pool or slow trickle in the summer (again I usually hike this section in the winter and these springs are small then but if they have gotten as mush rain as we have in B'ham then there will probably be something there). You can easily spot them when they cross the trail usually on the inside of the bends around the ridge sides.

My trail info also shows a seasonal spring 1.1 miles after Heaven and 1.6 miles after Heaven just before reaching Little Caney Head. I have only ever used the one closest to Little Caney Head but it is much more substantial than the others I have mentioned and is about 3 feet wide where the trail crosses if I remember correctly. (Again I only have experience with it's levels in winter but it is very reliable in that season and I would feel pretty confident in finding water there if I were hiking it myself in summer but no guarantees you know. It may also take some scrounging which I have been known to do. If you are real particular about your water source you may have to carry your own).

From Little Caney Head the info I have shows no springs or anything until you reach Blue Mt. Shelter which is past your end point at Cheaha St Park.

[Mountain Dog]

The only semi reliable water on that stretch is where Chinabee Silent/Pinouti/Odum cross.  I find it there about 60% of the time.  I would not bet on it unless I had more recent data.  BUT, I have always found water at the creek on Nubbin between Odum and Cave Creek.  There are plenty of places to camp up about 25 yards south of the creek on the Nubbin.  Directions--Adams to the Pinhoti/CS/Odum crossing, go east up Odum to the Nubbin sign, and then north on Nubbin.  I'm guessing the distance from the Pinhoti to the creek is about 1 1/2 t 2 miles.  From there, you can hike north to Cave Creek and the parking lot on hwy 281 or take the crossover (there is a sign) from CC to the Pinhoti and continue north on the Pinhoti to McDill and hwy 281.  The overall distance is not much different if you go back on the Cave Creek trail.  The mountain vistas are better on the Pinhoti.  I personally would camp on Nubbin and take the cross over to the Pinhoti.  Your alternative is to have someone carry water about 1 mile up from Turnipseed and stash it at the Pinhoti/CS/O crossing.  Take plenty of water and make the scouts drink frequently.  I was on the Bartram last week and the heat cause some physical problems and I am used to hot weather.  Gorging yourself with water versus frequent drinking purges your system of electrolites and that can be really really bad.

[blisterbob]

As of 7-18-11,
There is plenty of water beside the CST just a short way down from the Little Caney Head large camp,
but the spring crossing on top where the Pinhoti crosses is dry.

[wyleone]

As of 7-18-11,
There is plenty of water beside the CST just a short way down from the Little Caney Head large camp,
but the spring crossing on top where the Pinhoti crosses is dry.

Thanks to all of you, Good Karma coming your way for helping out a new poster. Most folks ignore newbs.

If there is enough water for my Hiker pro to pick up at the Little Caney head large camp area, it will be awesome. We can drink up our water we carry to the top and reload there.
 Of course we will carry electrolyte tabs to keep from diluting ourselves. One of our leaders had a medical stay a few years back for that very reason. It is not something we take lightly.

Is it feasible to drop down to Cave creek from the crossing at CC trail than back up to the ridgeline without killing ourselves?

We did decide to utilize the cave creek trail if we were weaker than expected by that crossing. But the main plan is to stay up on the Pinhoti to see the sights if we could manage it.

[dogwood]

If there's water flowing at the Pinhoti/Chinnabee/Odum intersection at Caney Head, then you should be able make it to the Cheaha trailhead without a problem(approx 6 miles).  The spring is usually fairly reliable with a little rain - as Mountain Dog said, you might have to go down the Chinnabee  a short distance(water on the left) to find it.

[wyleone]

That's no problem,  we can do a side hike if we don't have to carry 2 gal each up stairway to heaven. For the leaders this is no problem ( if we have to ), but it would kill some of our scouts. It is sounding like we have a 90-95% chance we will find filterable water along the trail so 1 gal (+ water bottle) per person may be what we leave Adams gap with.
 I can't wait for this trip, I'm pretty sure I am more excited than the scouts. They haven't hiked anywhere with over looks like this.

[Woody]

Not sure what kind of intake the Hiker Pro filter has but you might consider carrying some sort of light weight bowl to catch spring drippings in and then filter the water out of the bowl. I learned that lesson the hard way with my first filter. It had a big ceramic filter that had to be submerged to take in water for filtering and I was unable to get water at small sources (rock seapage) or springs that were not deep enough. The bottom of a gallon milk jug worked pretty well and was super light weight, though it did take up some space. Just something to consider.

[wyleone]

It has a silt screen on the end of the hose that needs about 1/2" of water to submerge it. But It can be removed if necessary, to pick up in less depth. The milk jug can be strapped to the outside of my pack. I can use it to catch rain water as well off of my tarp.
Thanks for the idea.

[Mountain Dog]

""It is sounding like we have a 90-95% chance we will find filterable water along the trail ""
I disagree unless theer has been several rains within the last couple of weeks before you hike.   I've done that section several times. I usually do not find water between Adams and the Chinnabee crossing.  Ergo, I never plan on picking up water there.  The water near the top of the mountain and on the Chinnabee is frequently just a muddy hole.  I do no normally see it dry but getting enough water for several people might not be possible.  Again, it all depends on what rain has happened recently.  The crossover trail (Cave Creek/Pinhoti) is not very long and I do not find it difficult.  If I were trying to stay on the Pinhoti and found I needed to bail after I started south from the CC/P/O intersection then I would bushwhack around H. Peek.  Look at your map.  When headed north you'll see a shapr turn to the west and actually south west.  You are probably less than 100 yards from the Pinhoti if you go west by north west instead of following the Pinhoti.  Get a GPS and make a waypoint for that point.  You can save a lot of distance and hiking difficulty by cutting across there instead of using the CC crossover..  If you stay with your plan and there is no usable water near the top on the Chinnabee then go up the Odum to Nubbin.  You are not that far and I'd rather carry half the water and divert to there if needed rather than carry extra weight up from Adams.  Glad you are carrying the tablets   I passed out on that section one summer because of water issues.  Hike Happy

[wyleone]

""It is sounding like we have a 90-95% chance we will find filterable water along the trail ""
I disagree unless theer has been several rains within the last couple of weeks before you hike.   I've done that section several times. I usually do not find water between Adams and the Chinnabee crossing.  Ergo, I never plan on picking up water there.  The water near the top of the mountain and on the Chinnabee is frequently just a muddy hole.  I do no normally see it dry but getting enough water for several people might not be possible.  Again, it all depends on what rain has happened recently.  The crossover trail (Cave Creek/Pinhoti) is not very long and I do not find it difficult.  If I were trying to stay on the Pinhoti and found I needed to bail after I started south from the CC/P/O intersection then I would bushwhack around H. Peek.  Look at your map.  When headed north you'll see a shapr turn to the west and actually south west.  You are probably less than 100 yards from the Pinhoti if you go west by north west instead of following the Pinhoti.  Get a GPS and make a waypoint for that point.  You can save a lot of distance and hiking difficulty by cutting across there instead of using the CC crossover..  If you stay with your plan and there is no usable water near the top on the Chinnabee then go up the Odum to Nubbin.  You are not that far and I'd rather carry half the water and divert to there if needed rather than carry extra weight up from Adams.  Glad you are carrying the tablets   I passed out on that section one summer because of water issues.  Hike Happy

We plan to go the first weekend of August. It has been pouring here every day but that is here in Mobile. So, basically, in less than two weeks. We can head down to CC if we need to. We just wanted to stay on the Pinhoti all the way if we could. I do have a GPS, so I will mark that as a waypoint before we go.

[Lane]

Wyleone,

Did y'all make it o.k.?  How did you find the water situation?

***nevermind...found the trip report under the Pinhoti section***