Geocache Owners Read This!!

[weathermansam]

#2 kinda impressed me. Botanical collection has decimated whole populations of orchids in New England and Europe, all in the name of confirming species, despite the invention of photography what...a century and a half ago. Then again, I suspect either NFS is exempt or they issue permits.

 
Pursuant to 36 CFR 261.50 (e), the following persons are exempt from this order:
1. Persons with a permit specifically authorizing the otherwise prohibited act or
omission.
2. Any Federal, State, or local officer, or member of an organized rescue or fire
fighting force in the performance of an official duty.

[Joshua Szulecki]

Darn, I'm good.

[bear^2]

I'd like to add some thoughts to this insanity regarding the removal of active geocaches in the wilderness area.  

*How much is this costing in manpower?
*How much time is this taking out of the important duties of a forest ranger?
*How does the damage a geocacher-or anyone wandering off the trail-heck let's just count every visitor to Sipsey that ever went off the trail- rank inrelation to the exponentially increasing feral hog population that does more damage than every visitor to bankhead combined?

I have placed a note on all my caches that reads that if the cache has been removed then this cache becomes an earth cache.  If you've ever done a bear^2 geocache, then I seriously doubt many people are going to want to continually come remove my containers I intend to keep replacing if removed.

I think the state of Alabama has a lot more things to worry about than people just trying to go find some peace and solitude in the wilderness.  Maybe it is time to contact our legistalors and governors to persuade the forestry service to abandon this ridculous attempt to eradicate geocaching.

If geocaches are removed, my charitable donations will cease.

Will someone please bring common sense back to the government?

[squidbilly]

We may not like or agree with some of the regulations, but they are obviously necessary, especially in heavy use areas like the Sipsey Wilderness.  One thing I think we can agree on is the need for the VWR Program. Perhaps education can go a long way toward reducing the need for enforcement.

So I'd like to say: Thank you Sam, (and all the other rangers) for volunteering your time and effort to help  preserve our wilderness areas.

[weathermansam]

I'd like to add some thoughts to this insanity regarding the removal of active geocaches in the wilderness area.  

*How much is this costing in manpower?
*How much time is this taking out of the important duties of a forest ranger?
*How does the damage a geocacher-or anyone wandering off the trail-heck let's just count every visitor to Sipsey that ever went off the trail- rank inrelation to the exponentially increasing feral hog population that does more damage than every visitor to bankhead combined?

*Just volunteer's gas money and time.
*None or little. 
*Get me an m-60 and some paid leave from work, and I'll take care of the swine for everyone.  I need the stress relief, and I'm not allowed to shoot my wife's 7 cats. 

Maybe it is time to contact our legistalors and governors to persuade the forestry service to abandon this ridculous attempt to eradicate geocaching.

It's not an attempt to eradicate geocaching.  It's an attempt to follow their own regulations that have been in place for some time now and they finally have the manpower to do so.  It's an attempt to lessen an impact on a wilderness that's overused.  There's plenty of other caches in Bankhead to see as well, and I've discovered some places elsewhere in Bankhead that rival Sipsey.  Eye of the Needle is unique, but that whole area is waterfall country.  If it's arborglyphs and native american history you want to see, plenty of that as well.  No one will scream about trails being made there either. 

[bear^2]

Earth Geocaches violate none of the posted statutes.

This is clearly a waste of local, state, federal, and volunteer time and money.

 

[weathermansam]

Earth Geocaches violate none of the posted statutes.

This is clearly a waste of local, state, federal, and volunteer time and money.

 

You're right, and I like earthcaches, I've done a fair share here in Huntsville.  I get bored with posting "TFTC!" ad nauseam  so my profile isn't very impressive on geocaching.com.  They do a fine job distinguishing them on their website at least, and it does raise an interesting situation that I don't have an answer/good retort for. 

Wasting my time?....nah, I've got an excuse to spend more quality time in Sipsey.  There's nothing wasteful about that.  Scroll back up and read the "work duties".  Our main goal out there is education.  We're expected to hike 6-12 miles on these outings.  I'm not planning on lugging back a pack full of geocaches and 6 tons of trash unless someone kindly wants to stuff them with gold coins, then feel free to load 'em down.   

[McDowra]

I think the VWR program is the best idea to come from the Rangers in a long time. Hopefully those VWR can begin to point out some of the problem areas to the Rangers. I think one of the biggest problems is the Rangers look at their job as tending  to the forest and hikers-campers-hunters are a problem they would rather have go away.  I believe they are overwhelmed with things that need to be done and the lack of manpower to get it done.  The solution is herd all the people in one area, get volunteers to help thus freeing them to do other stuff, which my be part of their strategy.

[weathermansam]

We're also data gatherers.  There's not a lot of information out there about who uses this area.  Part of the interaction with trail users is to find out something about them, where they've traveled from, how far they plan on hiking, what they're wanting to see.  Knowing this kind of stuff helps funding, which for recreation, is pretty low on the totem pole of things financially for the FS.  In a few years, we'll hopefully have enough information for a good base reading and perhaps a push can be made for more funding, and then in turn, more trails. 

[Joshua Szulecki]

I think we all need to keep in mind a distinction between the policies NFS may be enforcing, changing, or just hinting at, and the volunteer ranger program. These are just folks who have volunteered to help protect our wilderness area. Many are our friends. They don't make policy. They don't even enforce policy. We may not agree with NFS, but I think we owe the volunteers respect, considering they've made a considerable commitment in time and energy to help protect something we all love.

[weathermansam]

I regret starting this thread.  It'd be nice to see it disappear.  I honestly was just trying to be a good guy and get word out about the geocaches since I know several members here would probably want to keep them.  I had no intentions of this degrading into a bickering troll match about what the VWR program is or isn't.  I've posted the duties and linked to the page concerning it.  For the record, we're not hiking off trail [which I thought I'd made clear], and we're not on a scavenger hunt to eradicate geocaches.  I'm not the spokesperson for the VWR or Wild South or the Forest Service.  Email them if you want more info.  I've got too much going on a personal level to continue bothering with this. 

[Joshua Szulecki]

I think this conversation has run its course.

What we've learned...
- NFS will be enforcing their ban on geocaches within the Sipsey Wilderness Area. This ban is not new.
- The VWR's are volunteers. They do not set or enforce policy. They will not patrol off-trail.

What I've received confirmation of...
- There is, and never will be, a ban on off-trail hiking in Sipsey.

I'm going to exercise moderator discretion and lock the thread. It has drifted too far from the original topic, and since I'm partially responsible, I owe an apology. The VWR program should not have gotten mixed into this discussion, really.

I would appreciate it if someone more knowledgable than me would start an informational topic, providing information about relevant regulations and policy for geocaching on federal properties like NFS, NPS, and BLM lands, as well as on Alabama park properties. Discussion of the merits of a geocache ban can continue unabated in that thread.